Curse

Mister Overhill · Apr 18, 2007, 06:53 PM // 18:53

I started Guild Wars on day one with half a dozen family members, adding henchies as needed. Great fun, but as often as not they are unavailable to play, and then I go for a PUG or play something else.

In do-it-yourself mode , GW is great once, maybe twice, and that's it -- same as any other single player game.

Tingi · Apr 18, 2007, 07:10 PM // 19:10

PuG's are next to not existant because of the introduction of those darn heroes.

They are the worst thing to be implemented in GW since Prophecies was released.

tyche7 · Apr 18, 2007, 07:26 PM // 19:26

I still see PUGS all the time. I think Heroes are one of the BEST things to happen to Guild Wars (next to increased storage).

flipfly2004 · Apr 18, 2007, 07:29 PM // 19:29

just get a pve oriented helpful guild... (like mine) we help each other in every way. not only to finish missions but also to provide as much experience as possible... we call it the "pyramid method of teaching" XD

the most xp'd player teaches 2 xp'd palyers (mostly offis)
those 2 teach 4 other members
those 4 teach 8 ppl
and so on....

we are a german guild though ^^

Nemo the Capitalist · Apr 18, 2007, 07:34 PM // 19:34

i miss pugs as well

but koss is smarter when put on no attack rather thana PUG anyday :P

deadmonkey4u · Apr 18, 2007, 07:36 PM // 19:36

Pugs kill me. I prefer playing with others yes but only with groups of people i know. Heroes/hench are far more reliable. Pugging tends to lead to mission failures due to stupidity, someone leaves, or something to that nature

Alex the Great · Apr 18, 2007, 07:52 PM // 19:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torqual

It's almost as if any PUG you join is going to be made up of you plus bad players: Smiting Monks, Melee Necromancers and Rangers casting fire spells.

ut

i'm no an "expert" exactly (i got elites and golds/greens on all my heros but I can only play about 5 classes very well)

But that statement is kinda well........u clump together a lot of people in there.

1. Lol a guy showed me a signet smiter mo/me with mantra of inscriptions and it accually did quite well tyvm

2. conjure flame or mark of rodgert +barrage.......and back in the day thunderclap

3. melee necro......no comment........accually in Abadons gate a necro with demonic flesh, endure pain, defy pain, sig of stenght, and grenths balance can do a fair amount of damage if they run to melee ranger and get the crpa beaten out of them for a while.

Dj Tano · Apr 18, 2007, 07:56 PM // 19:56

they have been flushed down the toilet on the second day...

FFF_Mara · Apr 18, 2007, 08:17 PM // 20:17

I actually really like my heroes and I also go for the "many-eles" tactics. And its really fun with another player and fill up with heroes or hench, like has been said before. I generally do that for questing as most quests are doable with that combination.

However, when it comes to missions I am still looking for players first and when we dont get enough, I offer to put in any heroes. But I dont pressure anyone to accept them, like some do too. Everyone seems to think he or she has the ultimate setting for the hero. ANyone else got that impression? Its a very good thing that pinging the skills is possible. ive seen hero monk skill bars that were really horrible.

Its a matter of balance and also a time issue. Im out of the house for 10 hours a day, not counting doing groceries and stuff and quite frankly I sometimes jsut dont have the nerve to wait for hours to find enough players or try some missions with PUGs over and over again. Still heroes are never as much fun to play with as humans. Also I have done some quests and missions so damn often that I cant be bothered to explain a good tactis to ppl who dont listen anyway -or at least discuss it- and its simply quicker and more soothing to my nerves to do them alone. I could also do that with a single player game but i just like my chars so much

trustgw · Apr 19, 2007, 04:06 AM // 04:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navaros

As stated in other threads about this topic, the above quote is completely incorrect. The back of the Guild Wars box states very clearly that Guild Wars is supposed to be a solo game if you want it to be.

Solo play and PUG play is not mutually exclusive. A game can have both a solid Solo game and a Solid PUG game. I would not care if Heroes existed if they put in something else so people that like to play with PUGs can. Right now it is very hard to find PUGs which forces me to not play or play Solo.

This is not a thread against Solo play. If a person wants to play by themselves then I think the game should support that, but I believe GW should also support the PUG PVE Player. Right now it is has KILLED it.

Aeon221 · Apr 19, 2007, 05:33 AM // 05:33

You people do realize that the quality of drops increases exponentially when using humans as opposed to henches right? Not having to farm because I pick up a gold or two (from drops, not chests) per pugged run can make it worthwhile.

I've got no problem bringing pugs that don't mind adjusting their builds. No one has an issue with that in PvP, I don't see why PvE people feel it is their holy right to run a shit awful build. LoD + every other heal party spell and Holy Haste does not make a good bar, whatever the voices in your head told you. Neither does power attack + all temp health skills + three stances.

If a pug is willing to make a decent bar, I'm willing to bring him/her along with my heroes (an sh ele, a mm w/ aegis and convert hexes, and an rc prot), and maybe even a few other people too. But as soon as one of them shows a tardbar and refuses to alter it, out they go.

Otherwise I grab a guildy, get on vent, and enjoy myself with some skilled support from someone who won't draw a penis on the minimap just because he or she (yes, my guild has females) has never known that you could draw on it.

Even worse is that puggies just don't follow the leader in a map with multiple movement options. If I'm calling for a squad in HA, I don't have to tell them to follow me. Puggies should know to do the same because the henches do it for them from day one.

Sheesh. If a few more PvE people took their heads out of whatever cavity they stuffed them in and learned a bit about how to play, I'd be more than willing to pug with them. My 12 year old brother picked up how to make a decent build and play in a competent fashion only a couple of days after getting the game. The average pugger probably has an order of magnitude more playtime logged, but can't handle simple concepts.

Maybe they should add droppable flags and aggression buttons for pug players, so that I can tell them even more simply what to do.

trustgw · Apr 19, 2007, 06:46 AM // 06:46

The worst player in a PUG game is not the bad player, but the egotistical elitist nerd that thinks he is gods gift to the game and seems to be in complete and utter shock if someone (god forbid) is not very good. Please stop crying. It is only a game. Now give me back my PUGS!!!

The Ernada · Apr 19, 2007, 07:00 AM // 07:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by trustgw

The worst player in a PUG game is not the bad player, but the egotistical elitist nerd that thinks he is gods gift to the game and seems to be in complete and utter shock if someone (god forbid) is not very good. Please stop crying. It is only a game. Now give me back my PUGS!!!

And I'd rather not have either of those types of players when I'm short on time. I'd gladly help new players if they are willing to listen but sadly most bad players are bad because they refuse to listen or learn. And yes a lot of them think they are "god's gift to the game."

As for support for PUGs, I guess there really isnt any, except for the chance at socializing. Maybe they could put an XP increase or gold increase for having humans over henchies/heroes. As long as there are options that support PUG play and solo with heroes play, I'm fine with it.

I just wish that people would stop screaming for Heroes to be taken out. I don't scream for PUG play to be taken out so dont take away my option to play with heroes.

cyberjanet · Apr 19, 2007, 07:16 AM // 07:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by cthulhu reborn

PUG's are alive usually around the weekend times.

Last weekend I gave it a shot just to see and it cured me from it real quick.

I know what you mean. I had two bonuses to finish for the Protector title. Both fire islands. I go to Ring of Fire, meaning to go it alone, but got involved in a PUG somehow. We failed twice, first time due to two leavers, and second time due to this concept of "lure" that is little understood. I only carry one rez signet...

At this point I ran out of time and had to leave. After we had returned to the outpost, and not during the battle, note. The second group was just a bit incompetent not rude, and we could have sorted out the luring in a retry. I would probably have gone again if I had the time. Anyway...

Next day I went along with two guildies who needed mission and bonus, plus heroes, and we succeeded first try. And then did Abaddon's Mouth equally promptly.

PUGs are dead for me, killed not by heroes but by rude players. The new way to play is with at least one other person and favourite, well-equipped heroes. This gives you a fabulous opportunity to balance your team according to what profession the people have and the environment you're going into. If you can get four people and four heroes, coordinating nicely, that is super fun.

I don't like playing all heroes and henchies. It gets a bit lonely. Although it does mean you have to figure out where to go and what to do by yourself, rather than just clicking follow. And I like someone to chat to while I play - I'm always on teamspeak - so we can discuss where to go and what to do.

Torqual · Apr 19, 2007, 10:10 AM // 10:10

I have lost count of how many times I've completed various of the three Ring of Fire missions with 4/8 or 5/8 due to quitters.

This highlights the principal problem with PUGers. People /ragequit, AI doesn't. A-Net have had the option to fix this for a very long time. They brought in 'reconnect after disconnect' - good move - now they need to put in 'replace after ragequit'.

If a human player quits the mission, why can't the instance continue to run an AI-controlled version of their character with the same appearance, name, build etc. We're not talking like an extra hero with control panel etc. just the behaviour of a henchman.

Obviously the AI replacement should not get any loot or benefit or mission completion but - since we're in an instanced environment - there is no reason why a character shouldn't 'be' in more than one place at one time.

It's just to stop quitters ruining the mission.

Hmm....I have already thought of a way this could be abused. People start the mission and quit instantly so a guildie gets a clone instead of a bog-standard hero.

OK forget this exact replacement idea... but maybe if, say a monk quits then they could be replaced in the Party Bar with a default 'Canthan Monk' etc with a Mhenlo skillset, rather like when you have two copies of Dunkoro in the party.

Amy Awien · Apr 19, 2007, 10:56 AM // 10:56

Quote:

If a person wants to play by themselves then I think the game should support that, but I believe GW should also support the PUG PVE Player. Right now it is has KILLED it.

It is not heroes that killed PuG's, heroes rescued PvE. It is some players that 'killed' PuG's, it's the rushing, the non-communication and the fanatical drive for achievement that gives PuG's a high risk of being no-fun.

Quote:

... I don't see why PvE people feel it is their holy right to run a shit awful build. ...

There is a common misconception here where some seem to think they have the right to control another player, or at least their skill bar and their style of play.

It is their skill bar, not yours, and it is their right to use it the way they see fit, not your right to fill it as you see fit. It is their game, for which they payed with their money, not yours, and they have the right to play and enjoy it as much as you.

Giving advice is fine, but trying to control other people, or even the skill bars they bring on their characters is not.

Essentially, it is their right to run their build, whether you like it or not.

freekedoutfish · Apr 19, 2007, 11:42 AM // 11:42

1) Play Factions then.

2) PUGs are still needed for masters and bonus on missions.

3) PUG numbers have fallen all over the game, not just in NF. The reason isnt heroes, its because players are becoming arrogant and rude and people choose to user supriour AI instead of having to endure attitudes and people who cant follow instructions.

Heroes are a god send.

Onarik Amrak · Apr 19, 2007, 11:53 AM // 11:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

It is not heroes that killed PuG's, heroes rescued PvE. It is some players that 'killed' PuG's, it's the rushing, the non-communication and the fanatical drive for achievement that gives PuG's a high risk of being no-fun.

There is a common misconception here where some seem to think they have the right to control another player, or at least their skill bar and their style of play.

It is their skill bar, not yours, and it is their right to use it the way they see fit, not your right to fill it as you see fit. It is their game, for which they payed with their money, not yours, and they have the right to play and enjoy it as much as you.

Giving advice is fine, but trying to control other people, or even the skill bars they bring on their characters is not.

Essentially, it is their right to run their build, whether you like it or not.

...and that's why people don't PUG if they can avoid it.

Rocky Raccoon · Apr 19, 2007, 12:15 PM // 12:15

I think you can still find PUG's and they can be fun. You will always get the dropouts occasionally but you learn to go on. Last night I was in a PUG at the Ring of Fire, we lost 2 people along the way and kept going. We ended up at the last boss with 2 healing monks, 1 ele, 1 tank and 2 rangers. It took us about 25 minutes to take out that 1 boss and nobody even thought of leaving. People were joking we might be there all night because he couldn't take us out and we couldn't get him. We eventually did take him out,and everyone had a great sense of accomplishment. PUG's do still exist and they still can be fun.

TheRaven · Apr 19, 2007, 12:44 PM // 12:44

Most bad pugs are bad because of a lack of leadership and coordination at the start. If you are the leader, then ask some very simple questions of your team before you start. Follow these rules and you'll have a much better pug experience.

1. When each member joins, ask them to ping their bar. If the bar is decent, say so. If the bar is absolutely horrible then ask if they would consider some advice and changing it. If they won't, kick them. In most cases though, the bar is okay, but could use 1 or 2 skill changes. Suggest the changes and why you'd like the change.

2. If a player does have a bad or sub-par build, don't say "OMFG!!! What a retard!!! That's the dumbest azz build I've ever seen!!!!" You aren't helping that player. Give him the opportunity to learn. Either suggest improvements or politely kick him and suggest that maybe he isn't ready yet for this area.

3. Ask ahead of time if everyone has time to complete the mission. Usually you know before you start if the mission will take a half hour or an hour. Make sure your entire team is willing to commit that time without mom or dad calling them to dinner.

4. Folks sometimes get annoyed at you for taking the time to do this. There's always someone yelling "GOGOGOGOGO!!!!!" "START THE FREAKING MISSION ALREADY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" Do yourself a favor and kick this person. They don't have the necessary maturity level to play well with others yet and will likely ragequit half way thru when someone else on the team annoys them.

5. Be aware of your surroundings. By this I mean, The Gates of Kryta does not require the same level of skill that the DOA does. Don't insist on perfection in the builds if it isn't necessary for the area.